In a Jan. 30, 2018, interview with Luis Elizondo, investigative journalist George Knapp asks about the Gimbal UFO and other encounters, as well as speculation about the ability of unidentified craft to go under water. Part 5 of a 10 Part series.

George Knapp: I was told by someone that one reason that you left your job is because there are other Tic Tac incidents since then, also dramatic, perhaps with increasing frequency and that this is not unusual anymore.

Luis Elizondo: So forgive me, Mr. Knapp, if I don’t, if I can’t answer this question as completely as you would like, because there are some sensitivities. And I’m no longer employed by the U.S. government, so there are some left and right limits I have to pay attention to. I am still bound by my non-disclosure agreement. I still have a security clearance, or at least I think I do. So as a result, I have to be a little bit mindful of that. But I will tell you that the Nimitz is simply an example of one case, one event in time of many that we looked at. And I think that is why this is so important, because it’s not a single incident. Don’t believe me. Don’t look at it just one time and say, “Hey, we saw this thing, and we don’t know what it is, and therefore all of a sudden we all need to now engage on this.” When it continues to happen as a pattern, that is when we get to the point where we now become increasingly concerned, because it’s not an anomaly, now it’s a trend. And if it’s a trend, then we need to look at it, right?

Knapp: Let me ask you another question you can’t answer. I was told that there was an incident in that Nimitz period over those several days where there was a USO as well, I mean, some of the descriptions that Dave Fravor and his colleagues that there was something under the water. And one report is that it reached up and grabbed something. Can you talk about that?

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Luis Elizondo interview

Elizondo: I’m aware of that incident. I can’t speak about it too much right now. But what I can tell you is that there are some interesting … In the world of intelligence, we are trained to find patterns amongst pieces of information that appear to be nonsensical. And what we have been able to do is determine there are some specific patterns that we continue to see and observe with these types of incidents that are occurring. And so it is quite common to see the things potentially over water. There have been many, many reports that these things, potentially whether … So let’s put it this way. Imagine an object, if I may borrow your pen for a second. Imagine an object that is supposed to fly in Earth’s atmosphere. It’s going to have a very specific shape. It’s going to be aerodynamic. It’s going to have a front and it’s going to have a back. There’s going to be a point for exhaust, there’s going to be flight surfaces for it to maneuver in atmosphere. If you have this this same vehicle and you want it to operate in outer space, well, it’s going to have different characteristics. It doesn’t need wings. It doesn’t need certain things because it’s flying in a vacuum environment. It’s gonna have thrusters, not jet engines, right? And so it’s going to look different. Think of the Apollo 11 lunar lander module, compared to a 747, they look really different. And yet, the lunar lander goes a hell of a lot faster than any 747 does and you wouldn’t think it does, but it does. And then lastly is a boat or a submarine. That looks significantly different than something that goes into outer space, and something that flies in the atmosphere. And yet what we’re seeing here is potentially an object — this pen — that can potentially fly equally well, both in an atmosphere environment, a vacuum environment, and potentially a very thick-type medium or a water environment.

Knapp: What about Earth?

Elizondo: That’s a great question. I don’t know. I can tell you though, that from our perspective, anything that has the ability to fly in some sort of transmedium, if you will, between water and atmosphere and space, we probably need to look at. It’s not that the technology doesn’t exist. Obviously we have things that can fly in all sorts of stuff. But it’s very unusual, and it’s very expensive. And usually they don’t … there’s always a sacrifice. If you want something to fly really well in the atmosphere, it’s not going to fly so well in the water or in space.

Knapp: But these things can.

Elizondo: Well, they seem to be able to fly pretty well pretty much anywhere.

Knapp: Gimbal and Tic Tac are different things.

Elizondo: They are.

Knapp: And from different incidents, different places. The first time you showed me Gimbal, it looks like an aura around it. And you said, we think we might know how they work. Do you? Do you know?

Elizondo: I think we are very close to understanding the physics. So my job in the government at the time really with regarding AATIP was to twofold: to determine what it was, and how it worked. Not really focusing on, as I said before, who’s behind the steering wheel or their intent. I figured if we can answer at least those two first things, everything else we will be able to explain later. So, sad to say … there’s good news and bad news … the bad news is we’re not any closer to understanding now what it is than we were before. But the good news is, ironically enough, I think we’ve come very, very close to understanding the physics of how it works. And that’s very exciting. For the first time we have a very compelling picture, that what we are seeing is absolutely explained by our current understanding of physics, and advanced physics and quantum mechanics. But these things are displaying things that we can see behave at a micro level in places like the CERN and Large Hadron Collider. So from our perspective, I think the ability to understand how something works puts us a lot closer to understanding what it actually is. We do believe that now for the first time, perhaps all these observables that we’ve been seeing, for example, sudden an extreme acceleration, hypersonic velocities, low observability, transmedium travel and last but not least positive lift, or anti-gravity, is really a manifestation of a single technology. So it’s not five exotic technologies. We’re trying to figure out how it works. It’s one and we think we know that one, too.

Knapp: Can you name it or you got to keep that? Is like electrogravitic? Is it you know, space time distortion?

Elizondo: I think it has to do … what we have collectively, looking at the at the mathematical models and looking at the scientific studies that have been done, we believe that it has to do with a high amount of energy and the ability to warp space time. And not by lot, just a little bit. In fact, warping space time is something we see in the natural world all the time. So we see with GPS satellites, in fact, the GPS satellites right now everybody has on their phone, “Oh, I’m gonna see where I’m at today,” those clocks have to be calibrated and recalibrated even though those cesium clocks on the satellites are exactly the same as the ones we have on the ground station, they have to constantly be calibrated. And the reason why is because the effects of Earth’s gravity has on the space time of those cesium clocks here on Earth relative to those cesium clocks that are on those, those platforms that are above earth. In fact, the clocks that are above Earth, compared to the ones on Earth are running slightly faster. Now how is that possible if they’re the exact same type of clocks? Well, that is because the effects of Earth’s gravity, and the closer you are to a massive object, the more space time is warped. And we’ve seen that with Einstein’s relativity, and it all boils down to E=MC2. Basically, what we’re talking about is lots of mass or lots of energy to warp space time. The closer you get to a supermassive object like the sun, the greater that distortion occurs. In fact, when you get to a black hole time is so distorted that time stands still. So we know, we’ve seen this, we’ve seen it with gravitational lensing when we’re looking at a far-distant galaxy, we can see the effect gravity has on space time. We can actually see it with our, with our eyes. So we don’t have to prove that. That is science fact, not science fiction. So the question is, technologically, how can we go ahead and manipulate that physics to our benefit. So now we can potentially warp space time in a way that allows us to go from point A to point B a little faster.

Next story: Who is behind AATIP? Luis Elizondo describes UFO effort’s distributed presence – Part 6