Australian UFO researcher turns to DNA to identify mysterious being’s origin

UFO

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MYSTERY WIRE — In Australia, scientists interested in the UFO issue managed to gain access to their military’s once-secret files about unidentified aerial objects, but say they were disappointed in what they saw.

They had more intriguing results when analyzing DNA evidence left at the scene of a close encounter.

Bill Chalker (theozfiles.blogspot.com)

Bill Chalker has spent decades working as a chemist but is better known for his side passion as a UFOlogist.

He’s widely regarded as the dean of Australian UFO researchers and has been investigating cases and incidents since the 1960’s, including the earliest versions of what we call crop circles but are known as saucer nests in Australia.

Chalker even gained access to Australia’s military files on UFOs.

Independently, Chalker and his colleagues managed to find that rarest of phenomena – physical evidence gleaned from the site of a sensational case of alleged alien abduction, a hair left by the unusual visitor.

That’s when he made the decision to analyze the hair’s DNA. “We had the shaft with one set of DNA, and the root showing a different type, and we could not understand it,” Chalker said in a recent interview. “And eventually, we concluded that this seemed to be the result of some sort of advanced cloning technique. And also we had evidence in the nuclear DNA that this person who needed to hear I guess, you could say, had what appeared to be CCR five dilution factor, which is an interesting property, because it leads you to be perhaps impervious to things like smallpox and AIDS, that kind of thing. So that would be a very handy thing to have. But unfortunately, it’s not shared that widely around the Earth. They have this constellation of unusual DNA properties within one small hair sample. It was bizarre.”

Chalker’s DNA tests showed the hair to be some sort of advanced hybrid not previously seen. The discovery became the basis of a book called “Hair of the Alien: DNA and Other Forensic Evidence of Alien Abductions”.

Chalker said the hair was blonde and “sort of almost optically clear, showing what appeared to be rare Asian Mongoloid DNA from a very rare sort of subgroup.”

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Below you can watch the complete interview between George Knapp and Bill Chalker. You can also read the transcript below.

George Knapp
All right, Bill Chalker. Would it embarrass you to call you, the Dean of Australian UFO researchers.

Bill Chalker
That’d probably be embarrassing. Yeah.

George Knapp
True. True.

Bill Chalker
Let other people express that, I guess.

George Knapp
Have you become accustomed to using UAP instead of UFO?

Bill Chalker
Ah, I know my friend Keith Basterfield is gone that path, but I’m still pretty comfortable with UFO, but I think UAP to me still sort of has the situation where you kind of have an elephant in the room, you know, and it’s, you got to notice it and call it what it is, I think. UAP tends to, from my experience, tends to limited to, I guess, lights in the sky and, and amorphous phenomenon, that kind of stuff. But you know, I’m open to whatever you want to call it.

George Knapp
Well, UAP also has sort of an imprint of the Pentagon on it, you know, it’s their term for it.

Bill Chalker
Yeah, well, I wouldn’t necessarily use the Pentagon imprint. It is a more scientific term. So I guess with my background in science here, I’m comfortable with whatever we call it.
George Knapp  1:18  I wanted to talk to you through this mechanism and through Mystery Wire to let our viewers know, you know, a lot of Americans who follow the UFO topic, they think it sort of stops at the borders of the US, East Coast and West Coast. And they’ll recognize the UFOlogy, the kind of research that takes place around the world. And you’ve been at it for a long time I read that you became interested in the topic as a teenager, which must have been what, 1992?

Bill Chalker
(laughing) Yeah, that’d be right. Yeah.

George Knapp
But you know, I mean, all the research that takes out takes place around the world, including in Australia, doesn’t get a lot of recognition here. But it’s quality work. You’ve been at this a long time.

Bill Chalker
Yeah, I think I think that’s part of the problem. It was interesting for me during the late 60s, early 70s. I become a member of Jim and Coral Lorenzen’s organization APRO (Aerial Phenomena Research Organization) and what I liked about that organization was that it had quite, very impressive international credentials. And I think probably more than any group at the time, it was doing more to highlight the fact that this is an international UFO phenomena. And, you know, there were researchers abroad around the world and APRO had quite a good representation from all around the world. More so than other organizations in America at that time.

George Knapp
You did become interested as a teenager you started reading about UFOs, learning what you could and then in 1969, the same year that Blue Book was canceled, the same year that the Condon report came out, you took umbrage at that, at the effect that those decisions made that it sort of said, there’s nothing to UFOs and it made you more resolved to find out what was going on.

Bill Chalker
Yeah, well, I basically got a high school kid who had access to the local town library, school library, and all that kind of stuff. And I was reading Lloyd Mellon’s articles, I think, what was it in Popular Mechanics or Popular Science or something like that. And he was writing a whole series of UFO related articles. And at the time, my school librarian for the look over my shoulder to see what I was doing. And sort of I was looking at all these sort of science related articles about UFOs being reported in the American magazines and, and a couple days later, she came back with her own personal copy of God help me when I say this, Georgia Adamski and Desmond Leslie’s book, Flying Saucers have Landed, and so it was her own personal copy, which he gifted to me, and wished me well in my studies that that was the school librarian for and, and when I went back to the school for reunion, I think in about the year 2000. And something that the principal of the school actually was talking to me, we went into the revised brand new library, and here’s a copy of my book, The Oz Files: The Australian UFO Story. So but this picture of signing my book, in the school library, your generation of readers that sounds good fun.

George Knapp
Well, your first UFO book was Adamski. Mine was a picture book, Billy Meiers, the Billy Meiers book, one of Wendell Stevens books with somebody gave me as a gift the 1970s. You have to start somewhere, right?

Bill Chalker
That’s right. Yeah. So I gotta say, I didn’t find Adamski, Leslie’s book very impressive, but it sort of encouraged me to do a lot of, you know, for the direct research in the original materials, and that showed up a lot of issues and that kind of stuff with the material they were promoting and that kind of thing.

George Knapp
That’s the challenge, isn’t it? Separating wheat from chaff, figuring out what’s real isn’t in 90% of it is not very reliable.

Bill Chalker
Yeah, I’ve been doing that for decades. There’s a lot of thought of wheat and chaff.

George Knapp
1969. The same year we’re talking about you had some events right in your backyard. I remember the first time I ever saw a picture of what we now call crop circles it was called a saucers nest. And it was from Australia. And these happened right in your backyard, right?

Bill Chalker
Yeah, that was actually 1966 that sort of really gave that the term flying saucer nest in this set threw up and final Queensland, and that’s a fairly famous case. I’ve spent a lot of time there and looking at that case, and in fact, I’ll be revisited Tully back in the early 70s. And it was the owner’s son or one of the other sons that informed me when I was actually going into the horseshoe Lagoon, where the nest had been found back in 1966. And they’d been a quite a number of those cycle saucer nests found in the lagoon and I’d gone into the lagoon and swam into the wilderness. It has varying some depth, depending on the season of the year. And that was until after I got into the water, he told me I even look out for the type and snakes. And he reckoned that I launched like a UFO out of the water very, very quickly. And I said you told me that before I went into the lagoon, basically, as one of the hazards of, of, you know, doing field research in northern Queensland, you got to watch out for snakes and other things that might do harm.

George Knapp
Harwood Island, you had some incidents there early in your career of investigating these kind of cases. And these are not nebulous sort of sightings. These were distinct, not grainy at all distinct kind of craft that people were seeing right brother eyes, right?

Bill Chalker
Yep. Yeah, that I think you’re talking about 1969. There was a whole cluster of these kind of trace events, so ground traces nests to whatever you want to refer to them as right up and down the north coast of New South Wales. And one of them was on the property of the local member of the New South Wales parliament, Ian Robertson, and my father knew him and I got an invite to go out to the location. And there it might, it was a front page story right around US, Australia, probably because it was on a property of a local parliamentarian. And while there wasn’t a direct UFO connection, some flood mitigation workers had seen blowing cop shaped things going down into that property area. The actual damage to the Sakhalin crop was fairly extensive, and they got a lot of attention. But there were very few clear-cut UFO events until a couple of years later, I got a letter from a woman living in Harwood Ireland, who described an extraordinarily vivid close encounter. And it turned out that the data that was very, very close to the discovery at the … property of the parliamentarian and the Harwood Island event, and then geographically they’re not too far apart, but the power Island woman said that she’s walking beside this sugarcane crop. He is a sort of bonnet rustling It’s evening and look towards the direction of the disturbance and saw what appeared to be like the high beam of a vehicle coming across the top of the sugarcane crop, but this high beam seem to switch off. It was, she felt as though she was actually being levitated off the ground. And it was quite a striking experience. But when the high beam effect seemed to turn off, she could see this dish shaped object, with a dime, the whole thing and it’s quite an interesting, close encounters. Very, very impressive, but certainly revised my, I guess, perceptions of a lot of these so called ground trace events or saucer nests or to use the other more modern crop circles, I tend to refrain from correlating crop circles with UFOs it’s sort of a bit of a problematic controversy.

George Knapp
Oh, yeah, it’s a leap, especially when you know, humans do make a lot of them if not most of them.

Bill Chalker (physical inorganic chemist) with Dr. Horace Drew (biochemist) who led the DNA studies that highlighted “hybrid” DNA characteristics in the unusual hair sample found during Peter Khoury’s strange 1992 experience in Sydney. (Photo: theozfiles)

Bill Chalker
Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. Yeah. But I have my friend, Dr. Horace Drew, who’s a was my collaborator on The Hair of the Alien sort of work and as a personal hobby, he’s obsessed with the sort of solving some of the crop circle messages and all that kind of stuff. Now, you know, he and I argue about the, I guess the nature of that event, or the nature of crop circles whether it’s alien or human design. I tend to err on human design more than anything, but he tends to feel that there is a tangible residue of cases there that worthwhile looking into.

George Knapp
You have your own sighting, right? It was on campus? On college campus?

Bill Chalker
In 1972, yep, in August, and back in those days, I was just sort of partway through a science degree and just finished a four hour practical class meant that you’d get out around about six o’clock and what you’re fixated on was tearing down the hill from the university buildings themselves to get into the college dorm. eatery, before closed. And so I’m rushing across my college dormitory area, that quadrangle, I say to people, and he’s pointing up in the sky and saying, Can you see what I can see to your friend and and then he doesn’t want to see it. And I thought, what am I talking about, I look up. And I see this egg shaped metallic things that are passing over what appeared to be around about 200 feet altitude, very hard to confirm that. But if it was any higher, it would have been a massive object. And I’ve got to have a clear-cut look at it. It was about twilight, so there’s still a little bit of light about. And I felt that it was moving so steadily that it was something like a balloon or, or a misperceived aircraft, but it seemed very differently around metallic object, I’d be able to still see it as I went through the laundry area, which was a fairly narrow building space. And on the other side was a huge open area of sports fields and that kind of stuff and I rushed through. And to my astonishment, there was nothing there. And I thought, What the hell’s going on here? If it had been a balloon or a craft or something misperceived, I would have still been able to clearly perceive it. Of course, I rushed back again, nothing inside, but checked out local authorities and couldn’t explain what I’d observed. So. So that was a really interesting sighting. But What amazed me was that at the time, and actually, as it turned out, earlier in the day, I’d had a, an encounter with a gentleman who was aware that I was a member of the newly formed University of New England, psychic phenomena Research Society, and I’d been ordained as the chairman of the ghost ghosts and poltergeists, subcommittees, and, and for me, that was just a catch all, you know, because basically, during that era, during the 70s, it was still a lot of sort of controversy about psychic researches and UFOs. Never the two would make kind of thing and there was no reason why we should be looking at either phenomena and linking the two. So therefore, for me, I was kind of open to it, because I was coming across case after case that had the sort of apparent paranormal connections and all that kind of thing. And this gentleman who was familiar with me being connected with the society actually said, there’s a pretty weird thing that happened out at Mount Butler, this little farming location on the outside the skirts of Armadale, which is where the university was, like, added University of New England. And I said, Well, what would you say and he described that these people had encountered a monk in a shroud that kind of possessed one of the individuals there, and pretty amazing story, very bizarre story. And that occurred on the morning of the same day that I had my daylight sightings that led me to that location, Mount Butler. And as it was the case with a lot of university students who were tired of dormitory living, they tended to go out to the farming locations, and start living on properties and that kind of stuff around the town. And as it turned out, Mount Butler, was the location of ongoing your thought activity, kind of a little mini version over the old Skinwalker situation. So that was a pretty weird time, lots of multiple UFO, then psychic paranormal events, all that kind of thing.

George Knapp
I was going to say, you know, Skinwalker, I got to come down to meet you some years ago and spend some time in Australian how to talk about that presentation. And it seemed like we find out more and more about places where it’s not a really simple case of a UFO scene in the sky, a structured craft, that there’s a lot of high strangeness surrounding these events mixed together. It makes it very hard for people like you to figure it out. Is science, the right framework to figure these mysteries out. And have you ever I know you’ve had a lot of scientific training and education. Have you ever allowed yourself to reach a conclusion such as their extraterrestrial, their interdimensional or is it just always going to be a big question mark?

Bill Chalker
Big loaded question. Yeah, look, I think science, I’m an advocate of a mostly disciplinary approach, you know, science, when used properly with the right equipment, and all that kind of thing can be a very powerful tool to help calibrate whatever you investigate and research and, and so it gives you the opportunity of anchoring stuff in in a kind of a affiliate well documented way. That was the approach that I use when I wrote Hair of the Alien, we had an extraordinary complicated case. But we use scientific testing, genetic testing, that kind of thing to try and document whether it was a substantial mystery. And I think people in general should use science and whatever equipment and facilities we’ve got to try and I guess, assess the credibility of cases, etc. I know that even since writing the book, here, the elements came out in 2005, there’s still a reluctance throughout the whole abduction field to apply genetic testing, to verify a lot of the claims that are made, yet. We’ve done all this work and published it between 2000 and 2005 and, and yet very few people who’ve attempted to replicate it with other cases.

George Knapp
We’ll talk about “Hair of the Alien” in a minute, just the general idea of science taking on these topics, you know how it is in your country, as well as here, especially here, science doesn’t want to touch it. There’s a reluctance, especially if you mix in skinwalkers, and ghosts and psychic phenomena, things like that. It’s hard enough just getting them to look at UFO evidence.

Bill Chalker
Yeah, well, George, you appreciate this very well, that the whole concept of the invisible college is that kind of thing. There’s been manifestations of the invisible college, right around the world cetera, and to explain the invisible college for those who aren’t aware of it. It’s basically that cluster of interested scientists who are keen to research the UFO field, they know full well that up until recently, it and it still is, I guess, a taboo topic, that doesn’t give you any brownie points for sort of extending your research credentials, and that kind of stuff. And, you know, in interest of self preservation, those scientists that often are deeply interested in your subject will do it. And but from an invisible college point of view, stay anonymous, below the radar, that kind of thing. creasing, number of them have come out in the open. And we all know that the various people that have come out in the open, etc., and they cop a lot of controversy and that kind of thing. But there are an amazing number of scientists worldwide that are interested. And once you start to get deep into research and start to make those connections, and I’ve certainly done that with a lot of scientists here in Australia.

George Knapp
Let’s talk about your books,  Oz Files is the first one, Terrific overview of Australian UFO cases. Hair of the Alien is exactly what we’re talking about. If you want to look for physical evidence and apply science to a case, this is one where it really worked and and the results were astonishing. Can you give us a capsualization of that?

Bill Chalker
Yeah. Well, I’ll point of the book was essentially trying to apply fine to a very controversial sample, etc. And I’ve got to be honest, and Frank, initially, I kind of built that the chances of anything interesting and unusual coming out, was going to be pretty remote. And I said that to Peter Khoury, the person who provided the hair sample. And to cut a long story short, he had an abduction experience or what appeared to be an out of box experience. But unlike most abduction experiences, he had what appeared to be physical proof. And that was the hair sample. I suggest people read the book order all the various web articles to get into the detail, because it is extremely confronting controversial. But we thought, let’s apply DNA forensic techniques to it. See where we go with this story. I said to Peter, big risk. If these details come back, and I suspected that they would come back as very precise, very ordinary, he would have a lot of explaining to do with his part in it. As to the nature of the sample, and, but to the consternation of both myself, and the research scientists associated with the case, it came back pretty unusual. Here we had a blonde hair sample sort of almost optically clear, showing what appeared to be rare Asian Mongoloid DNA from a very rare sort of subgroup. In Asia at that time, when we did the original work, access to the Asian genetic database was pretty limited, but my associate who was the DNA biochemist, and that he’s now come out public is Dr. Horace Drew. Now he was a senior research scientist with these major government science organizations. And it does all this other the Commonwealth of Australia kind of advanced research, that kind of thing. And, and he was a well regarded science. In fact, the co author of understanding DNA, one of the standard textbooks, that people have got to use as a textbook, that kind of stuff. So I knew that the work being done on the case was done by a highly credible person supervising the research. So it showed, and a lot of people don’t get this is that what we seem to come up with was essentially a hybrid hair sample, because we had the benefit of replicating the work in the shop that shed the rearrange Mongoloid DNA in the root, when you are only going to get one chance of this, this showed, basically a rare DNA. And that stunned the researchers simply because in the root, the shaft, the skin, whatever, you should get basically consistent DNA, were getting inconsistent DNA but being replicated. We had the shaft with one set of DNA, and the root showing a different type, and we could not understand it. And eventually, we concluded that this seemed to be the result of some sort of advanced cloning technique. And also we had evidence in the nuclear DNA that this person who needed to hear I guess, you could say, had what appeared to be CCR five dilution factor, which is an interesting property, because it leads you to be perhaps impervious to things like smallpox and AIDS, that kind of thing. So that would be a very handy thing to have. But unfortunately, it’s not shared that widely around the Earth. They have this constellation of unusual DNA properties within one small hair sample. It was bizarre. And that’s why we essentially wrote the book. But essentially, it was the result of an attempt to show what science could possibly do is to explain to the case, which we initially suspected it would do, or verify that it was something unusual. In this case, it verified something unusual.

George Knapp
Did the witness describe the alien that abducted him. Was it a blonde?

Bill Chalker
Yes, Peter Khoury, the witness, he was a gentleman who born in Lebanon, Christian  background, a family emigrated to Australia. He had basically a cement rendering business at the time he had this. He was recovering from a job injury. And spending a lot of time at home, he’d drop his wife off to the local radio station, that was the only breadwinner of that thought. So it’s all a lot of stress going on in the family simply because he was recovering from this work injury and wanting to get back into the work situation. But has this experience of a blond haired woman, Nordic looking, turning up in the house. It’s a very bizarre story. And I hope people when they don’t go and just a soundbite that we’re giving here they go to my own blog site. Check out the links website, which is which I’ve referred to as Alien DNA Paradigm. That’s the name of the blog that’s linked on my Oz files blog. That gives you a very detailed account of this case. It’s an incredibly complicated case. Trying to distill literally over a decade’s worth of research into a five minute soundbite is impossible.

RELATED: The Alien DNA Paradigm home page

George Knapp
I’ll put up the link so they can find your work. And we’ll send people there and also Hair of the Alien is a terrific read Anyway, let me ask you this in the time we have left, China, the Chinese government you’ve made a point of trying to find out what’s going on in China UFOwise. Can you talk about the UFO picture, how tough it is to get information from China, and in particular, how tough it is to get information from the Chinese government?

Bill Chalker
Yeah, well, I was already a bit of a China-phyle, kind of species of people that basically are fascinated by the Chinese. I guess cultural and historical situation all the rest of it doesn’t necessarily mean I I definitely don’t endorse the Chinese sort of current government. system etc., prefer to see a free and open society. But it’s been a fascinating area for me and it was actually the hero that the alien investigation that really got me keen to go to China itself to investigate the rare Asian Mongoloid DNA. And that was one of the primary impetus is going to China and got some limited funding was able to go to China eventually went to China, basically three times over the space of I think it was 2001 2005 2006, and got to meet a large number of Chinese researchers. And the level of scientific interest was really intriguing, you know, like DNA specialists, interested in the phenomenon, a lot of engineering types, that kind of stuff. But I also encountered the same kind of broad kind of dichotomy of people that a broad range of people, but a very substantial core of scientifically orientated people. But there was a lot of UFO sightings. But what I found was also abduction cases, that kind of stuff. I’ve got some big Chinese abductees, that kind of thing. Essentially, there were a lot of researchers that were examining this, and there was evidence of government interest, but but mainly, I was getting it from scientists that were interested, they seem to be more open to it. What dismayed me was given the Chinese Communist regime that they didn’t show a great deal of tolerance for, I guess, mystical or New Age kind of stuff that was outside the narrow range of what should be a science focus. But yet they tolerated the scientific interest in UFOs. And when it got into rather strange pastures, like abduction cases, which I did get to examine a few cases in China directly. It It was getting into some pretty controversial areas, which I thought would have gotten a lot of negative blowback from the government to these Chinese organizations that actually, the first year that I visited China, it was very difficult to make contact with UFO researchers in China. It turned out that Falun Gong had apparently intercepted a radio station, we’re broadcasting messages. And that was the beginning of the suppression of Falun Gong. And unfortunately, Falun Gong uses a little bit of contact to kind of aspects to promote the religion, the meditation culture, whatever you want to refer to it as. So it made it very problematical on that first visit. So I learned that most of the researchers were keeping a low profile at that time, but certainly in 2005 and 2006, that was much different. Because I was able to access the groups attend the UFO conference, and in the subsequent year, did a trip that was devoted to evaluating the Chinese connection to the hair sample in Peter Curry’s case. So I’m gonna do a lot of interesting research in China.

George Knapp
I heard they had UFO groups, organizations that might be everywhere. They’re huge.

Bill Chalker
They’re everywhere. You know, there’s a few of the major groups that are quite well established in Beijing and Shanghai and also in Kunming in Yunnan Province. I spent a lot of time it actually lectured to the science faculty at the University Yunnan and members of the physics faculty and the number, the chemistry faculty, that kind of thing. They’re all members of the UFO group.

George Knapp
Let me ask about something called solid light. You did some work, you found some information about something called solid light, which I did not understand. Can you describe that what it is?

Bill Chalker
Well, some would like to terminology that I think it was originally adopted by the Belgians or French researchers to account for cases that were occurring in Europe in particular and South America and in other locations. It turned out that it involved UFOs that send and project beams of light. But these beams of light didn’t behave in the normal way that we humans are used to like, these are the kind of non divergent would often be truncated, slow progression. So it’s kind of controversial properties that seemed to indicate that whatever the UFOs were, that were using light technology, or what have been the analog of light that was far beyond what we were capable of doing, and still are, basically, we’re seeing cutting edge type research uses various mediums that allow us to manipulate light to a limited extent, we can slow down light, all that kind of stuff, manipulate light, but nothing of the order that’s being seen in UFO accounts right around the world. And so there’s, I think there’s a lot of potential scientific pay dirt, if we examine those sorts of cases of solid light, and that’s something that I’ve been focused on for a long, long time.

George Knapp
You know, here in the US, you’ve read about AATIP, AAWSAP, the New York Times stories, there has been some crack in the wall of secrecy a little bit. A lot of people maybe are exaggerated to their expectations, they think disclosures right around the world, I suspect that you and I are both not holding our breath waiting for that to happen.

Bill Chalker
I’m not really an advocate of issuing… no, I’ve done the hard yards, I’ve had access to the Australian Government UFO files, etc. I’ve examined the bulk of the files, etc, when I had access between 2004 or up to 2004 in four separate visits, and I spent multiple days going through 1000s of files. And what I saw was basically being replicated by civilian researchers and that kind of thing. But what I didn’t see a great deal of was evidence of good solid science in these files, and that they keep referring to the scientific record, that scientific record, I’m afraid, didn’t exist to a great extent, in the government balls, UFO fall, I saw more evidence of good solid science in civilian research. But I didn’t get to meet a lot of government, defense scientists and that kind of stuff. Once they started to become aware that I was trying to access information. So I was making connections with government scientists who were below the radar. And some of these people came out in the open. That was kind of amazed with some of the people that were actually involved in the bill like chief government defense scientists, the head of the Joint Intelligence organizations, nuclear science section, and Harry Turner, nuclear physicist, he wrote a secret report in 1954, that suggested that UFOs were possibly extraterrestrial. So that was back in 1954. That was his own point of view, of course, based on data that he had looked at. But when you get that kind of feedback, you think, something surely going on. But my point here is that government organizations or whatever they’re doing on UFOs, it’s always under the radar, it’s always stove-piped, it’s always very hard to get a complete picture. And so that’s why I’m an advocate of open scientific investigation. It’s hard enough trying to figure out what’s going on. But when you got half the story being kept away from you and blocked, you’re dealing with shadows all the time. And that’s why I’m a real advocate of sharing information, open science.

George Knapp
Do you happen to think that there are Australian government files that you are not given access to national security cases? And I asked it for the reason that same reason here is where we’ve seen cracks in the wall a little bit, we get to see some files, but the really good stuff, the really sensitive cases, we haven’t seen those.

Bill Chalker
Yeah, I’ve got to give a qualified response to this, because I’ve had, I guess, communication and ongoing kind of contact with a number of what I guess you’d call from one of the better word deep trade type sources that claim to be members of kind of organizations that are actually outside of government, you know the controversial, Mr. Wilson document, or that becomes a very interesting kind of point to look at, because when I saw that, I was aware of bits and pieces on before that, when it became highly public. The point that resonated with me was the suggestion that here we are dealing with a secret kind of attempt to examine you oppose, but outside of the military and within aerospace, who still obviously had deep connections with the military. And that caused me to reconsider connecting with a person that had been in contact with me that suggested that very thing decades earlier. And so I reconnected with that person, that person been telling me ongoing information about being part of a worldwide kind of effort that’s basically rooted in aerospace, non government connection, they have kind of connections with governments around the world, but it is essentially a privatized aerospace kind of connection. And this gentleman I’ve met, I’ve interviewed, that kind of thing. But once again, you’re kind of dealing with a frustrating angle that nothing has been handed across, that would allow you to verify this, dot the i’s, cross the T’s, that kind of thing. It’s always impossible to confirm but a very compelling kind of story.

George Knapp
I just know that American allies, allies of our Department of Defense, kind of follow the path set out by the Pentagon when it comes to UFOs. That’s been true for the UK and Australia. And I didn’t know if with the crack in the wall here in the us a little bit whether that changed anything in your country.

Bill Chalker
I’m not detecting huge changes at this point in time. It’s kind of, you know, a lot of us are trying to revisit all the past connections to see where there’s been changes of policy, but essentially, officially, the Australian government is out of the UFO game. But there’s clear evidence that they are still investigating through various departments UAP or UFO cases it’s it’s not to use the word UFO. They are government in the past used UAS, unusual aerial sightings, even more kind of obscuring details and terminology. Now I’ve lost count of the number of kind of abbreviations for the UFO phenomenon.

George Knapp
AAV is another one.

Bill Chalker
Yeah, it’s quite a long list.

George Knapp
Great to talk to you. We’ll send people to your blogs, Blogspot. I encourage them to check out your books. I hope we get a chance to see you again sometime when the world gets back to normal. If that ever happens.

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