George Knapp: Back to Area 51. You’ve seen the stories that I’ve aired over the years and Bob Lazar and things of that sort. Scale of 1 to 10, 1 being completely bogus, 10 being really real, where does it fall?

Rick Doty: I’d say it was a good 9. Eight in some areas and 9 in the other. He had some things wrong, but he had most of the things right. Although, as I said today in my presentation, my classification of what I knew about that area was S-2. The complete complex was S-2. What he was referring, what Bob Lazar was referring to was S-4, which was four levels below S-2. So when I said I’d never been to S-4, some people asked me, “Well, I thought you said you were S-2.” Well, I wasn’t at Bob Lazar’s S-4. That was underground. I was as at S-2, which was the administrative offices that functions and controlled things about S-4.

Knapp: You drove down there one day on an assignment. And it doesn’t look like there’s a facility and suddenly there is, right?

Doty: Absolutely. I was driving down in a 4×4 Jeep, a C-7 Jeep. I was following the road. I was given a map. I drove down there and I couldn’t find anything. And I thought, I’m at the wrong place. And all of a sudden, suddenly appeared two Air Force Security police officers that came out with M-16 rifles, and said, “What are you doing here?” They saw my sticker on the OSI vehicle. I said, “I’m here to interview some people.” He said, and he checked all my badges and so forth. He said, “Okay, I want you to drive through that door right there. And then park, the first space to the right.” And I looked over at the mountain, I said, “What door?” He said, “It’ll open in a minute.” And it opened, it was all camouflaged. It opened. I drove in, I pulled to the right, parked, got out. Walked over to the entry control point. Did my exchange badge system. And that was the facility.

Knapp: That’s pretty wild. You know, not many people can say that they’ve been to that spot. Supposedly, there’s never been anything there. Ever. You know, there’s no facility, no road, no anything.

Doty: It’s there. I can guarantee it’s there. It’s very well camouflaged. But it’s there.

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The Interview:

  1. Spy admits government watched UFO researchers — and it continues today
  2. Former spy found himself accused, then cleared, twice in ’80s MJ-12 leak
  3. UFO threat a legitimate concern, former investigator believes
  4. UFOs: Former spy Rick Doty’s role in a controversial case, and national security concerns
  5. Bob Lazar’s accuracy on UFOs, Area 51’s front door, and ‘clearing’ a controversial book

Knapp: Can you talk about the project you’re working on, the book project? The book project and the troubles you’re having in getting it cleared, and what it’ll be about.

Doty: I wrote a book in 2015 about my life in intelligence, everything that I did for that 10-year period, and some things I did during my Air Force stint, my active duty stint, which was also in a form of intelligence. And I put it all together, I had help from a person to write it. I had a publisher. But I had to send it to the Air Force clearance office to get it cleared because I’ve had top secret clearance and codeword clearance before. So I sent it there. It was a 569 page manuscript. I sent it to them. It took them about four months to get it back to me. And when it got back to me, 343 pages of it was totally redacted.

Knapp: Ouch.

Doty: So there was no way I could … I mean, it wouldn’t have made sense if I’d … So, I’ve been appealing that over and over again. I mean, during the Obama administration, I had people telling me I can’t do it, I can’t do it, I can’t do it. And then it just died. And I kept asking, kept calling. And of course, a new administration came in. The Trump administration came in, I’m having the same problems. But hopefully, they sent me back … I’ve had to hire an attorney, Washington based attorney. And he’s pushing things along for me. And so hopefully, I just have to redact about 169 sentences. And then hopefully, it’ll be published by the end of the year.

Knapp: As an intelligence officer, you had a job to do, an assignment, you followed orders dealing with this topic. As a human with an inquisitive mind, you’re interested in this stuff. Are you encouraged by the general nature of what’s happening? What seems to be unfolding right now? Cautiously optimistic?

Doty: I’m very impressed. I’m very impressed by almost every speaker here this week. I spent the whole week here. I got here on Saturday, and I’ve spent the whole week here. Listened to almost every speaker. And I’m very impressed with the presentations. And I’m also impressed with the enthusiasm from the people that come here and frequent this event. And the researchers, the dedicated researchers that I met. I’ve met some wonderful people. I’ve met some really good people that are researching this in depth as an ordinary person. And I’m very impressed by it.

Knapp: The events, AATIP, AAWSAP, the news coming out, the New York Times. I mean, that’s an amazing story. It wouldn’t have happened years ago. Does it change the ground rules? I mean, does it change the environment for somebody like you?

Doty: I believe it does. I think disclosure’s going to happen, piecemeal. And I think this is part of that. The “Tic Tac,” those videos, the information that’s being disseminated. But my sources tell me that this was just a very small fragment of the entire picture. The release that was occurring because of Senator Harry Reid, who is a wonderful person. If anyone says I told you, I think it’s just piecemeal. I think that’s just like a sliver compared to what the government has. And let me tell you this before we go, one of the reasons that this project, the investigation and examination, the technical examination of UFOs have been going on for so many years … Dr. Hal Puthoff made it very clear at one point some years ago, he said, “This technology is so advanced, that we just can’t understand it.” Eric Davis says we’d have to write new mathematical equations to understand this. And so what we have to do is just do what we can now, and just move it along until we get enough technology to understand the full program.

Knapp: That’s how it was described to me one time, is every 10 years or so, they wheel it out and take another look at it, and see if we can figure it out yet. And they wheel it back in.

Doty: That’s exactly … that’s exactly true.